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What “The Peace”, as part of the eucharist, originally meant was that you had to settle up with your neighbour before you could proceed to communion. It disappeared from the order of service somewhere around late antiquity, I think, and then was revived by the charismatics as an excuse to cop a hug from the hotties. But I only know of one group to take it seriously: the Hutterites. Their eucharist is not a weekly ritual, but a feast held only after the successful resolution of ALL conflicts in the community. The process takes however long it takes, so if they get to hold it only twice a decade they’re cool with this. Since they are close cousins, the Amish might do this too, but I have no information on this.

Originally Posted By Hugo Grinebiter I was once told that Jews do it differently, you choose whether to forgive someone or not, and if you don’t do it, god won’t step in and tell the perp that he’s forgiven him on your behalf, without consultation.

This is true. I was married to a Jewish woman for eleven years, and I learned a few things about Yom Kippur. Basically the idea is that if you sin against god, you ask forgiveness from god, but if you sin against your neighbor, you ask forgiveness from your neighbor, and if that forgiveness is not forthcoming, there’s a black mark against you for the coming year that might catch the eye of the angel of death. Rather macabre, that last part, but the basic idea seems more in line with justice and fairness than the christian idea of sin against your neighbor and apologize to god for it.

The comedian Emo Philips said it well: “When I was a little boy, I prayed every night for god to give me a bicycle. Then I realized that god doesn’t work that way. So I stole one and asked him to forgive me.”

Originally Posted By Mr Fnortner I wonder about the cause and effect relationship between general intelligence and belief in the supernatural.

I don’t. The last time I brought it up, though, it generated a lot of criticism from Urban.

So, the first church sign is downright wrong: most of us have forgiven people more than god forgives us, if we have forgiven them without their groveling to us.

I was once told that Jews do it differently, you choose whether to forgive someone or not, and if you don’t do it, god won’t step in and tell the perp that he’s forgiven him on your behalf, without consultation; nor will he give you a hard time for withholding forgiveness. Your choice. The Muslim line on forgiveness between humans I don’t know, but I do know it is a religious duty not to let oneself be kicked around, which I consider a neat idea, much better than turning the other cheek.

To my wonder, I have learned since I came back to my computer that the line is from a Christian song titled “How He Loves.” You can read the vacuous, banal lyrics here: http://rickwsmith.com/blog/2010/05/11/if-grace-is-an-ocean-were-all-sinking-the-story-behind-how-he-loves/. I think I might have chosen a better metaphor than death-by-grace had I written the lyrics. But then again, I think. And the song writer obviously does not. I wonder about the cause and effect relationship between general intelligence and belief in the supernatural. And what’s worse than the lyrics is that the websites I have visited that refer to this song promote this as one of the very best Christian songs ever, and the lady who wore the T-shirt is an over-the-top fan. I would say “God help us all,” but that would be pointless, wouldn’t it?

Sadly, Calvin’s ghost haunts the American landscape in the early 21st century. It’s a rather classic un-quiet grave scenario, I’m afraid. Will someone, ANYONE, please just dig up the man’s grave and drive a stake through the corpse’s heart, or do whatever sage-burning-incantation-chanting ritual it takes to make him go away. His fifteen minutes were up three hundred and thirty years ago. Parade’s gone by, Old Timer. Move along.